In a game such as Hearthstone where more than 75 million accounts have been created, it can be incredibly hard to stand out. Jeffrey “Sjow” Brusi, has found his niche as a professional player whose personality translates well enough to an audience that, for the past few years, he has been one of the largest streamers of the game in the world.

Sjow’s stream is unlike many others on Twitch. On any given moment he is reaching Top 100 Legend with any one of his multiple accounts then the next he is playing Toto by Africa and cracking jokes with his viewers while speaking in memes. This hybrid-style of streaming appeals to the masses in a way that most people who stream Hearthstone don’t.

At DreamHack Summer in his home country of Sweden, Sjow and I had a conversation after his elimination from the Hearthstone Championship Tour Grand Prix tournament about his decision to put his energy into streaming over tournaments, the grind of playing ladder and the community he's built on Twitch.

You’ve been competing in tournaments for about four years now, how much has the scene changed since you first started playing at a high level?

Well it started really small I would say, like, there were barely any tournaments, some small online ones and they started to get bigger and bigger. People started to actually like watching it so, eventually, Blizzard announced the World Championships and it was pretty good and successful. After that, they always improved on them every year and it’s only getting better and better. Sadly though, I am competing less and less. I do wish I was competing more now though but I’m more of a streamer now.

Do you identify yourself more as a “streamer” or “pro player” even though you don’t compete as much?

I’m always a tournament player at heart. I like to compete but I think it’s more beneficial for me to stream.

In what way?

So, in Hearthstone, as I come from other competitive games like Starcraft and Warcraft, I’m used to [the idea that] if you are better than your opponent, you always win. But you cannot count on that in Hearthstone and there are not enough tournaments, I would say, even though it’s getting better so I took the route of streaming because it’s a more safe career.

Do you remember your first stream in general and what that experience was like?

It was cool. Like, I could show my games to an audience without having to compete in a tournament. Now I could show how I play whenever I want.

How has the streaming experience been for you as now all you have to do is press a button and you have thousands of people watching you?

It’s crazy, man. I love it actually. It used to be only to show my game so I could teach other people to play but now it’s also about the community. I actually like Twitch chat and I enjoy talking to them. Hearthstone is the perfect streaming game because you can actually talk to your audience during a turn. You could never do that in other games. In Starcraft, you had to fully focus on the game and couldn’t talk during it.

So you love your Twitch chat even though they love to crack jokes and push your buttons?

I hate them as well but, mostly, I love them.

It started as an educational and chill stream and then I “embraced the memes”, as you say. There were no memes before Twitch.

How would you describe your community of followers to someone who isn’t aware of the audience you’ve created over time? Describe Sjow’s supporters.

Okay, in three words: Bullies, trolls and funny-guys.

How did you end up with those people are your following opposed to an older, more mature one?

[Laughs] I don’t know. I think I must attract them. I remember when I started streaming Hearthstone I kind of went with “troll” music and a more fun approach. I think my approach attracts the younger audience which are a little immature but it’s fine.

Have you always taken a light-hearted approach to streaming or did you learn to embrace the memes in the last few years?

It was mostly the last couple of years. It started as an educational and chill stream and then I “embraced the memes”, as you say. There were no memes before Twitch.

What changed within yourself to where you encouraged a more care-free environment?

I talk in memes now, I didn’t use to do that before.

Do you feel that has changed who you are as a person outside of streaming and how you associate with others?

For sure. It’s a lifestyle, basically. It’s more natural to hang out with gamers now than people do don’t game.

A common misconception is that anyone can stream and be successful. All it takes is the push of a button and they to can have 3,000 people watching them in time. Can people who are not streamers truly understand what the culture and work/life balance is like?

I think it’s really hard to understand it, especially for the older generation. For example, my dad doesn’t quite understand it. He kind of understands the main concept of it but not really to the fullest extent. It would be really hard for me to explain it in full. I think they have to experience Twitch chat and everything themselves.

I was used to the thought process of, “If I play better, I always won,” and that’s not the case. It can be frustrating but it’s part of the game that you have to understand.

If you were to tell yourself five years ago that you would have the level of success you’re having right now, what would a younger Sjow say?

I wouldn’t believe it. [Laughs] First of all, I wouldn’t believe you could stream because that was not in anyone’s mind back then. No person really streamed, it was just tournament games back then.

Do you think that streaming can be a long-term career path for you? You’re currently 31 so you’re not a young kid on the cusp of moving out of their parent’s house and getting ready to go to college and this is some fun hobby. This is your career.

For sure. The industry is growing so much and there are always new opportunities in esports and in gaming in general. It’s something I’ve always liked and have wanted to progress into.

As far as your streaming content goes, what does the future hold or does Hearthstone take up your next five years?

I’m not sure. I will stick to Hearthstone as long as I like it and then we’ll see. Once I don’t enjoy Hearthstone anymore, which I think will happen, either the game dies off or another game comes that I really enjoy and I get a passion for, I will probably switch to that. Lets see how it goes.

Most people who play Hearthstone don’t reach Rank 5 in a month and you’re someone who reaches high Legend on multiple servers, what’s that mental grind like as you play over and over and sometimes you lose games you maybe shouldn’t, as you said earlier?

It’s frustrating, for sure. Since I said I was used to the thought process of, “If I play better, I always won,” and that’s not the case. It can be frustrating but it’s part of the game that you have to understand. It took some time for me to understand that I can’t always win or it’s not in my control. So, when I go to a tournament I have no expectations at all and it has really helped me improve my tournament results because I used to get really upset when I lost and tilted and I can’t play my best when I’m tilted.

How have you dealt with burnout and playing the same game day in and day out longer than most people have known it has even been a game?

I think to keep it fresh, I sometimes just take a break or just play another game.  Usually what happens is even if I don’t feel like doing it, once an expansion comes out in Hearthstone that’s when the excitement is rejuvenated. I always like when there are new changes that switch up the meta game so that’s always the peak for Hearthstone but sometimes it can really be so not so playing against the same things over and over again. What I would like to see in Hearthstone is more changes, new expansions or patches

Looking back at your time within the Hearthstone scene, is there a memory that sticks out to you, for better or for worse, that comes to mind?

Hmm, it’s good and bad. I got second place at SeatStory Cup and that was my first big result. It felt bad because I didn’t really play that well in the finals and I was really nervous but if I look back on it it was a good result and all so that’s probably my fondest memory.

With this tournament being in Sweden, sort of being in your backyard, describe this experience playing in front of the home crowd.

I probably do better in Sweden than I would do in another tournament setting because of how used to the setup I am as I’ve experienced it before. It’s always nice to play in Sweden because the crowd is always cheering for you.

Last question, as you’ve been in the streaming game for so long, is there a fan encounter or interaction that has always stuck with you?

Yeah, there was a viewer who sent a large gift box to me and that was kind of cool. It’s crazy to think that someone you’ve never met would send you something like that. I really appreciated that.